4.20.2006

A Life Less Ordinary

Ok I admit it. I like to stir the pot of discussion. partly casue my views are less important than the process of thought. partly cause I really like dialogue. and partly cause I really enjoy it.

as tmac has said, it almost cost me a dear friendship. but stronger and closer is the tie that binds.

not really sure what it is in me that enjoys the back and forth.

I read a lot of blogs each week. some I like cause they are along my thought process. others i like cause they really make me mad. still others i like just because there is an arogance toward the lack of what I hold dear. some I disdain. mainly becasue it is mostly opinionated stuff with no depth of thought or basis in truth. but I so enjoy adding to the on going discussion.

I posted a year or so ago about "bargain shopping at the mall of critical thinking."

we are so into our own opinions and try and protect so much what we feel like god ought to be like, what we heard God ought to be like, that we fail miserably at actually being able to discuss rationally and with forethought, a presentation of holy God based on scripture.

a lot of what we believe is more heresy than truth. mainly becasue we cannot say yes, rather we have to say this or that. can we not just say yes to all those things that scripture says? why are we so anal about trying to make Him fit into a little box and ideology that is man centric?

The religious types, pharasees to you and me, and some modern versions of these yahoos, tried to make Jesus out to be one thing...come in a certain way, dress is a certain way, eat in a certain place, wash up at a certain time...and he called them vipers, and white wash graves. but when God was preparing the way for Jesus, He sent some freak dressed like tarzan that ate bugs!

Jesus was not white, and he did not have a mullet. matter of fact, he was more likely to have an afro and be black than the pretty boy we have made him out to be. and he most certainly did not have blue eyes. He was ugly. He did not wear ambercrombie and have a peace sign around his neck. there was nothing about him that would make us want to look at him.

yet the box we have tried to put him in cannot even contain us, much less one who has always been, with no need of any outside influences or gnosis, or need from those who he has created.

I may anger some of you. it is nothing new to me. although I tend to try and be a little more understanding than I used to be.

but the descision to live a life less ordinary has changed my attitude from pew sitting and agreement to all that is said, to a seek and knock mentality that has left me in wonder.

how is it that we really expect jesus to make our lives healthy wealthy and wise, when he left John the baptizer in prison and had Peter hung upside down on a cross and had Paul beheaded? Welcome to America my friend! Jesus will sacrifice you and me that His kingdom would grow. just ask Stephen. The disciple whom Jesus loved was bioled in oil and left on an island. But I am sure if you ask real nice and have a quiet time, he will give you a big house and a nice car. sorry, I get carried away sometimes.

I am amazed at who he is. how we try and explain the inexplainable is funny. how we can try and fit all he is into a formula that tends to be all about fairness rather than justice is beyond me. how we can treat salvation like a self esteem matter makes me laugh. how we try and use what cannot be adequately defended in a logical thought sadens me.

I learned this week, that there is NO... and yes I mean no exceptable analogy of the Trinity that is not heresy. as much as we try, it just does not fit. we just have to say I trust. it is ok not to have it all figured out.

"God does not exist to make much of me. I exist to make much of God." John Piper

so welcome to The Primal Experiment. all box thinkers please open wide and say ahhh. if you want a safe explanation of God, this is not where you will find rest. but if you want to contribute to the ongoing discussion...make yourself at home.

40 comments:

Gigi said...

Mystery ..... ahh sweet Mystery....

Anonymous said...

yeah. that is true. God didn't make Jesus physically attractive. that was so people would not be drawn to Him for His stunning good looks, but for His words and His power. but I don't know if you have ever seen the glorified Jesus (it has only happened to me on one occasion) but He is the most beautiful person you will ever see. seeing Him smile at you, you know His love. you can feel it. looking into His eyes you can see who He is. audibly hearing Him speak to you. and that is what is truly beautiful. the Holy Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.

Anonymous said...

you are right, jeff! that's the best part about truly finding god!!!! you realize that we can never know what jesus really looked like. but we can find that he went and studied in india with the llamas for a while. or the fact that he believed and taught reincarnation. all of it is true!!! and that is my favorite thing about god. there are no wrong answers when it comes to describing him (or her, for that matter. who knows!)

Anonymous said...

rachel. what the crap are you talking about?

Sojourner said...

... ... ... I don't know if I follow you there, Rachel...

PS
Im sorry, I know this isn't my blog, but who is anonymous? If you're going to pop in just to contradict Jeff all the time, atleast have the decency to let people know who you are... btw, my name is Keith... nice to meet you all...

Anonymous said...

I feel like I've just entered an alternate universe... hahaha
It's always fun reading your blog and the types of people that come here, daddy. Love you.

Remnant Sons MC said...

"but we can find that he went and studied in india with the llamas for a while. or the fact that he believed and taught reincarnation"

I guess I invite this...but where the freak did you get this?

"but I don't know if you have ever seen the glorified Jesus (it has only happened to me on one occasion) but He is the most beautiful person you will ever see. seeing Him smile at you, you know His love. you can feel it. looking into His eyes you can see who He is. audibly hearing Him speak to you."

you gotta be kidding me...right?

llamas? ok... not, unless he was eating one.
reincarnation? ok...really not

seeing jesus and hearing him talk to you? probably not, but then again, who know what happens at camp meetings these days.

all freaks are welcome.

Sola Gratia (grace alone)
Sola Fide (faith alone)
Solus Christus (Christ alone)
Sola Scriptura (scripture alone
Soli Deo Gloria (the glory of God alone)

Anonymous said...

you don't think people can see jesus? what about the holy ghost?

thats what prophets do man. old testament and new.

Remnant Sons MC said...

so. you are a prophet?

most prophets I read about were known. I am sure you re known through out your region for speaking against those who are going their own way and prefacing their comments with "thus saith the Lord."

how bout a word. and a name? I know where you are from. maybe we know some of the same people.

Sojourner said...

As I thought about it, I realized that Rachel may be on to something with the whole Llama thing... But then I decided that it was merely one more reason to add to my "why i dont do drugs anymore" list...

Anonymous said...

wow. you are pretty close minded, jeff. i have never claimed to be a prophet, and i am most certainly not one. however, i do personally know 2, and i have met others before. they have seen jesus and the holy ghost, and some have even been to heaven like paul described in 2cor. thats the way things work. god is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

Remnant Sons MC said...

never been called closed minded...it feels weird. you seem a bit too open minded, which seems more dangerous.

Hebrews 1:1-4
1In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. 3The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. 4So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.

so. there is a problem with prophets today, since the verses tell us that they are not needed.

why would I need a prophet when I got Jesus?

and quite frankly, I believe it is possible to see Jesus, but highly unlikely.

I would be careful about comparing folks with paul and His vision. unless of course, they are involved in a new work and have a new word. but wait...scripture tells us that the church is how God does His work today, and Jesus finished His work of purification, and the Bible is complete.

no fresh work...no new word.

closed minded? yes probably. but so is scripture.

but. thanks for coming by, and thanks for being willing to dialogue. shame though. it would be nice to know who you were.

it seems petty to adress some one as annon. so I will call you...brother.

Sojourner said...

good word...

Gigi said...

Dang....this is going to be interesting!!

I like your comment about too open-minded being dangerous....depth of thought engaged without the word behind it....kinda dangerous.....but depth of thought and softness of heart brought on by a journey centered in Him.... combined.....bring it on.....

Anonymous said...

jeff. it clearly states, in the new testament, that the office of prophet is still active in today's church (Ephesians 2). as well as the spiritual gift of prophecy as mentioned in 1 Corinthians as well as Romans.

Prophets are still very needed today. Because while we all can, and do talk to Jesus, how many can hear Him talk back audibly? THAT is what a prophet is for. When was the last time you were in a church and the Word of God came into it? That is how the church should operate according to Paul, so this should and does still happen. An Apostle is the most important office a church has, followed by Prophet, then Pastor and Teachers.

Tell me jeff, who is your Apostle, who is your Prophet?

Anonymous said...

What is your agenda, anonymous? You have added many words, no name, and nothing but negativity to this blog that is not even your own... I know Jeff to be a wonderful man, and this has shown in his dealings with your contradictions to all his views... He has called you brother, yet you have called him out... So, what is your agenda and where is your heart? You have ignored all requests for a name so I have no doubt that you will in turn disregard this request for motive... Just know, anonymous, your name may not show, but your heart is visible to all through your words and it is not shining...

Anonymous said...

Yikes! Yeah, Jeff's a wonderful man, blah,blah,blah....but he can take it...

Anon....no name, but would you be willing to tell us if you aligned with a particular denomination and what that denomination is? (I feel like I'm playing that tv game show from the early seventies, was it "Guess Who"? Whoops, I show my age....

Remnant Sons MC said...

Well Brother,

I do not have an Apostle, nor do I have a prophet.

but I can tell you that it was Sunday when the word came into our church. it was delivered by my pastor. his name is paul.

I am gonna step out on a limb here and say you are probably a member of the local Church of God, or Full Gospel.

I say that becasue I recognize the distinct accent on which you place on the offices of apostle and prophet. it is familiar, becasue I was once a member.

again, I will refer you to Hebrews.
not to go against Paul in his writings. becasue quite honestly, at the time he wrote Ephesians and all his letters to the various churches, there was a need for clarity and visible power from those who spoke for the Father.

and honestly, there is much need for power today. I hear it each week. not heard it from all the churches I have had the priveledge to serve in, but 3 out of 4 were awesome men of God who preached with authority adn power.

but becasue there is scripture today, and it reveals who god is, What he says, and How we should live in light of those truths, why do I need a man who places himself between me and God with a message that is found in scripture other than my pastor?

I was in a service onec, and a man got up and began to speak in tongues. the church got quite, and we waited for someone to interpret. the gentleman who interpreted quoted scripture.

well why would we need a word in tongues to mention a verse that had already been revealed and written down?

why would a man who is armed with the sword of truth need to called a prophet or an apostle? and where is the evidence of such a man who stands before governments and kings and wicked men with a powerful word from God?

and if such a man exists, it seems to me that the hand of the Lord would be on him and we would know of such a man. becasue all the world knew of Samuel. all the known world knew who Isaiah and Amos was. every one knew who John the Baptist was, and Paul. these men were workers, poor men who survived on what God provided. Elijah and Elisha along with the others did miraculous works in word and deed. people knew who they were.

these men did not need a title. they did not advertise who they were. people knew it becasue of the one who sent them.

why? becasue the fear of God rested on them. they went and proclaimed what was not popular to those who needed it...not in the houses of worship, but in the world, to his people and in front of kings and leaders.

they did not stay in the pulpit and take refuge behind aname or an office. but laid their lives down in service of the very god who had sent them. they healed people. not standing in a line on Sunday or Wed night, but each day in the community, where the sickeness was.

so I ask...where is such a man today?

seated at the right hand of the Father. having fulfilled His role as sacrifice, for the purification of our sins. The King of Glory.

Jesus.

Anonymous said...

because of the fact that jesus came and is now seated at the right hand of the father, we are able to have access to His power and authority. there are more prophets and apostles now because of the gift of the holy spirit. with God working and living in us, we no longer need to have just one prophet at a time. it is a readily attainable spiritual gift, and quite necessary.

prophets are needed more in the church than anywhere else. if you cannot hear god, how can you have spirit led worship as spoken of in john 4? apostles start churches, that is their spiritual gifting. prophets hear god and repeat what He is saying, that is their spiritual gifting. prophets are no longer world reknowned because through the baptism of the holy spirit the gifting is so much more available to those who would receive it.

Anonymous said...

Yeah, Jeff! It's all about love!! Not tearing your brother down!!!

Sojourner said...

Anonymous, you seem to place much emphasis on these people who claim to have "visited heaven" as "Paul did"... It seems as though these men make much of it as well to claim their authority as apostles or prophets... (I am reading between the lines here and speaking from my own experience of meeting such people)... However, even Paul did not refer to himself in that respect as to have "visited heaven" but rather chose to remove himself from that fact so that people would know him by his actions and his words rather than by his "experience" and title... I know from my own experience, that such men I have met that claim such things have only the claim to stand on... Their words do not reflect the Words of Scripture, but their own "apostolic" motives... Furthermore, their actions are far from what one would view as godly, humble sincerity... Again, I am reading between the lines of your words, but I believe that the people you speak of who boast such things are no less guilty of hiding behind a veil of "apostlic authority" to cover and support their own agendas... I would be wary of these, anonymous... Just as I am quite wary of you who seem to have learned much about hiding behind titles... anonymous...

Sojourner said...

2 Cor. 12:5-7 btw

Anonymous said...

ALL of my claims can and are backed by scripture. sojourner, none of these apostles or prophets of which i speak go around claiming to be apostles or prophets. that is just what they are. they do as they are told by Jesus. and THAT is scriptural.


any other questions?

Sojourner said...

Anonymous, call me Keith if you like... I do have other questions... However, I do not feel comfortable filling up Jeff's comments with conversation with you... I do not agree that ALL of your claims are backed by Scripture... However, this is not my blog, and in all honesty, not my discussion... If you would like to discuss further with me personally, please email me... Otherwise, I am finished fillng up Jeff's comment log... adhesivedeath@gmail.com

Remnant Sons MC said...

you guys ought to hook up.
Graceville and Bonifay are just a few mile away.

nice thread of discussion. thanks for all who have been involved.

but as usual, we all are a bit too anal about where we stand to enjoy the dialogue.

as we are brothers who seem to agree on the atoning death of Jesus for the glory of the Father and purification of sin, whether or not we can see Jesus or hear Him talk to us, will always be a matter of interpretation.

some like it hot, others do not.

I can only hope that future posts are as well read and discussed.

grace and peace.

Anonymous said...

Everyone: Check out this website. Be sure to send them an email after you read it.


www.godhatesamerica.com

lee said...

you anger me bro...

well...

not really...

just wanted to join in all the fun...

dude...

you get all kinds hunh...?

some things never change i reckon...

thanks for the calls & for being...

& for letting me know about it...

better get you a stinkin' apostle or prophet or somethin' tho...

preferably 1 w/a mullet...

those are the best i hear...

Anonymous said...

yeah, the mullets are the crowning of all good apostles and prophets.

Anonymous said...

jeff, why are your views of God so limited? you should study all of jesus's writings, not just what is in the bible!!! study who he was when he went to india!!! learn such truths as, "god is in each of us, we together all make up god. knowing this, you should speak to the god in you. wake him up. wake up others!"

and that is sooooo true! jesus didnt come to condemn, but to show us the god within. not the god without.

Anonymous said...

rachel, i visited india with some prophets recently and i have to say that i agree with you. we passed by Jesus riding a llama, it was the most beautiful thing you will ever see.

Sojourner said...

here we go again... these anonymous people are getting a little weird...

you should put some ads on your site and make some buku bucks on this stuff...

anyway, happy upcoming birthday Jeff!!!

Anonymous said...

jesus never rode any llamas, he rode a camel. the same yound male camel everywhere he went. think people!!!

there are these writings entitled "the extended writings of Jesus Christ," and they include his journeys to india as well as china and malaysia. they are the most profound teachings you will ever find!!! i cant recommend them enough, they have changed my life!!! i used to be stuck in the same old traditions of only using the bible for study. i was sooooooo bored with it all! i read it and knew everything there was to know!!! finally, a friend showed me jesus's other teachings and my eyes were opened! it was the single greatest thing that has ever happened to me! read them and you will agree!!!

Anonymous said...

rachel. how do i put this nicely...

what the crap are you talking about?

Sojourner said...

im with you anonymous...

theres a clear line between petty arguments about modern day apostles or prophets and the stuff rachel is coming up with...

btw, i looked for "the extended writings of Jesus Christ" to figure out exactly where this "information" was coming from, but i found absolutely nothing...

Anonymous said...

well, duh!!! you aren't going to be able to find any of the REAL information online!!! what ever made you think that you would be able to?!?!?!

the only place you can find this information is at the selected enlightened churches. there is actually one just around the corner here, although i am not allowed to say where. but trust me, if you are interested in checking it out, maybe i can get someone to extend an invitation. just let me know!!!

like i said, i had read the bible and understood it. i knew everything there was to know about the bible. i thought there had to be more! i was right, there is soooooo much more!!!

Sojourner said...

rachel, you're joking, right?...

Anonymous said...

about what? everything that i have said up has been nothing but 100% accurate, both historically and scripturally.

what did you have a question about?

Anonymous said...

I recently discovered the "extended Elvis songs" and let me just say that there is sooooooo much more to the man.

The songs are being held at a very private and secure location.............or so I'm told.

Anonymous said...

the most high god jesus, or M'Bashal Sugai as is his true name, is all about love!

find more than just the bible. there isn't enough in there!

if anyone has any questions, please just let me know!

Anonymous said...

ok rachel, i have a question:

what have you been smoking?